Episode 106: D&C 11 – Section 19

February 14, 2016

Episodes

Episode 106: D&C 11 – Section 19

This one starts out a bit confusing as even the D&C itself can’t figure out when Section 19 was actually written (or should I say, “Revelated”). Then Christ goes into a full on rap battle, with himself. And of course, we learn how much god is ready to exquisitely punish Martin Harris if he doesn’t give Joe all his earthly possessions.

“Drink!” Count – 17

Around 3 beers

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And thank you to everyone that voted for the show in the 2015 Brodie Awards! The show took the Brodie for “Best Scripture Study Blog/Site/Channel/Podcast (two years in a row!)

 

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5 Comments on “Episode 106: D&C 11 – Section 19”

  1. Yarjka Says:

    To clear up the chronology issue a bit: “In June 1829, Joseph Smith hired the printer Egbert B. Grandin to print 5,000 copies of the Book of Mormon at a cost of $3,000. However, Grandin would not start the printing or even buy the type until he was guaranteed payment for the job.” (https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-manual-2014/section-01/lesson-24?lang=eng)

    I disagree with this section being a smackdown to Marin Harris without giving him anything in return. What he got in return was to be let in on one of the “mysteries of godliness”: that Endless Punishment does not mean punishment without end, but rather God’s punishment meted out according to His plan. This has huge implications later on when Joseph reveals more of his afterlife doctrine (particularly the stuff about Spirit Prison). Martin is being let in on this “deep doctrine” early on, and it therefore follows that he shouldn’t be talking about it to people just yet.

    Reply

  2. Duke of Earl Grey Says:

    I know you guys don’t care about SPOILER ALERTS for D&C, and I’m not convinced that David Michael even reads these website comments anymore, but I still won’t go into much detail about what’s coming up. However…

    As Yarjka hinted at, later doctrinal innovations in Mormonism would make it clear that Hell, in the sense of punishment being actively dished out on dead sinners, doesn’t last forever. At least it doesn’t necessarily last forever, for most people…

    Since the “doctrine” of God is supposed to be consistent throughout all time, how does the church explain this, when all through the scriptures to this point, and all through the Book of Mormon particularly, God seems to be talking about a hell without end?

    First, check out verses 6 and 7: “Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment. Again, it is written eternal damnation;”

    Now, hop skip and a jump over to verse 10: “For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name.”

    So, as lame as it sounds, even though later D&C sections will teach us that hell is not endless, God still refers to it as “endless punishment” because it’s the punishment He is dishing out, and He is Endless.

    Does that make sense? Not really? No, because there’s one more point to emphasize, that the church doctrinaires don’t like to call attention to, back in verse 7, because it makes God sound like a big fat liar: “wherefore, it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men…”

    So here is the meat which they cannot bear, lest they perish –

    When God said hell was eternal, he didn’t really mean it. He was just trying to scare us, so that we’d repent. That is the big secret, the great mystery.

    Now, God won’t admit that he outright lied to mankind for thousands of years before D&C 19 was given. As he explained here, a little defensively, “Hey, I didn’t say there’d be no END to the torment, I just said it was ENDLESS torment, because that’s my name, ENDLESS!”

    So the cat’s out of the bag. God never intended us to stay in Hell forever. But now that we know that, he doesn’t want us to think we’ll be hunky dory if we neglect repentance. So he makes it clear that we’ll still have to suffer for our sins, and that suffering will be exquisitely sore…

    Reply

    • Duke of Earl Grey Says:

      Oh yeah, and all that blood from every pore, drink the bitter cup stuff, that’s from the Garden of Gethsemane episode in Luke 22:42-44. For Mormons, Jesus’s agony in the garden wasn’t just his moment of cold feet before atoning for all sin on the cross the next day, it WAS the actual moment when he atoned.

      “Oh, and Dad? If you can do me one more solid? After I bleed from every pore, please clean me up before Judas gets here. I don’t want to go through the rest of the Passion narrative wearing blood-drenched clothes. That would kind of suck. Thank you. Amen!”

      Reply

    • saintralph343 Says:

      What would a religion that didn’t require so much ‘splainin’ be like? Has there ever been one, do you suppose?

      Reply

    • Jake Says:

      I thought Mr. Endless was supposed to be in the business of making porn videos. Now you’re saying he’s in charge of dishing out punishment somewhere in the Kolob System???

      Reply

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