Click to Listen: Episode 61: 3 Nephi 1-3
We start out with the “bright as noon day” night to tell us that the big man Jesus himself was finally born, yet somehow a bunch of those Nephites and Lamanites remain as stiffnecked as ever. Then those Gadianton robbers offer a truce, but the Lord’s people choose to fight rather than surrender! The stage is set for an epic battle!
“Drink” Count – 38
A little over 6 beers
![1f37b[1]](https://mybookofmormonpodcast.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/1f37b1-e1405272752631.png)
And here’s the “Thank You” that all the Mymo’s received from Dale McGowan, Ph.D., Exec. Director of Foundation Beyond Belief
My Book of Mormon 
January 20, 2015 at 9:10 am
In Mormonism, Jehovah is the same as Jesus, so when “the Lord” was talking to Nephi after his day of prayer, Jesus was who was talking to him. It is confusing – even more so if you consider that the original 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon reflected a much more trinitarian view of God. Most of the original trinitarian concepts were edited out, but occasionally they show up still in the Book of Mormon where Jesus/Jehovah refers to himself as the Father and the Son. Trinitarianism doesn’t entirely make sense to me as an atheist, because of being your own dad not making sense, but the Mormon Godhead has its own issues that are not resolutions to trinitarian confusion. The Godhead in Mormonism comprises of two physical beings and a spirit being. Jesus/Jehovah was a Spirit in the Old Testament times in Mormon belief. Both God and Jesus now have perfect, divine bodies but the Holy Ghost is a spirit.
Nothing is taught about the origin of the Holy Ghost or if it will ever have a body. Some “deep doctrinal” teachings regarding that humans exist elsewhere in the universe and are being subjected to the test of mortality, with Jesus of Earth as their savior still, also poses problems for me as the Holy Ghost would have to be in a constant state of expansion. He was able to physically manifest as a man to Nephi way back when, and as a dove at Jesus’ baptism. There are planets in a constant state of creation so Jesus in the afterlife would have to be really busy to visit all planets to validate his existence like for the Nephites and that constant creation combined with the expansion of the universe is why the Holy Ghost would have to be a constantly expanding influence in my observation.
Most Mormons don’t recognize that fundamentally they worship Jesus, but this is problematic because in Mormon belief, Jesus wasn’t supposed to take God’s glory and that taking of glory was supposedly Satan’s plan before life. That’s exactly what Jesus does in being the God of Earth though. Mormons try to separate Heavenly Father (God) as distinct, but in doing so, they sort of create a de facto polytheistic system because to claim to be Christian based on worship of Jesus – who is not God but is God at the same time – and they also observe Heavenly Father/Elohim/God, but only through Jesus as the intercessory medium. Very few hymns in the LDS church are about Heavenly Father.
Mormonism likes to purport that its a message of simplicity, but really its got lots of confusing bits and explanations which don’t really resolve longstanding problems in Christian doctrines.
January 20, 2015 at 4:30 pm
Dynamite voicemail at the end of the episode.
January 21, 2015 at 5:49 am
Agreed! The email was delicious. I wrote several fake verses about a year ago on /r/exmormon. Here it is if anyone’s curious: http://redd.it/1ssplj
It kind of puts the kibbosh on the idea that it would be hard to come up with a book of scripture. Speaking or writing pseudo-Jacobean English isn’t especially hard if you’ve read a considerable amount of the Bible. Personally, I think the Hebraisms in the Book of Mormon actually serve as disproof of its origins.
**SOME CONTENT BELOW MAY BE SPOILERS**
We’re talking about a book that purports to be a history of a Hebrew group of exiles that were divided from their parent culture for a millennium. The Book of Mormon is also supposedly an abridgment of the full history crafted by two late Book of Mormon prophets. What other culture have you heard of where a millennium does not create significant linguistic changes naturally? The translation of the Book of Mormon should not have many examples of “Hebraisms” at all, because the language should have naturally differentiated significantly in the hundreds of years away from the rest of the Hebrews. The culture should have also had significant changes in other ways, even if they were trying to keep the same culture. In the time frame of the Book of Mormon, Old World Hebrews shifted from monolatrism to strict monotheism. (This also indicates that the Nephites should have been monolatristic, as the transition didn’t happen until after the Babylonian exile).
In English, the poem Beowulf in its original format has the Latin alphabet, but I would guess that hardly anyone would be able to read it in its original form without formal training in Old English. If the Book of Mormon were true, I am surprised that the men who supposedly abridged the Book of Mormon seemed to have no problem reading ancient Hebrew even though the language would have likely changed significantly since the exodus from Jerusalem. The Mulekites (the Zarahemla) are noted in the early Book of Mormon to have had a drastic change in their language in only a fairly short period of time, so the issue is at least noted some place in the Book of Mormon, however the time period is likely too short to create complete impossibility to understand each other. People who speak romance languages can understand a lot of each language, though some words are significantly different between them.
January 22, 2015 at 3:59 pm
David, you mentioned something about how they finally figured out how to string together a series of years where nothing happened.
Consider that the Book of Mormon is an abridgement of larger plates by Mormon. He took the writings on the large plates of brass and condensed them down on the golden plates.
Now, I don’t know about you, but if I’m abridging something, I typically read the entire thing, and then make it as concise as possible. I wouldn’t say, “Yea (DRINK!), and it came to pass (DRINK!) that in the 14th year, there was peace, and yea (DRINK!), even in the 15th year….”
As you’re reading, just try to imagine why in the hell Mormon would include so much wasted text in an abridgment.
January 25, 2015 at 5:40 am
” American Exceptionalism :
and
“Bibical Prophecy from on High”
When listening to your podcast I had a vision:
And It came to pass, there is David and Scott marching with confidant swagger, in the dust and haze of battle with the BoM, silhouetted by the setting sun to the north or east, i’m not sure, I could see the glint of the armor and flash of the the sword; the grinding of chariot wheels and the clatter of tack, off in the distance I could hear the clash of great forces recounted by the thousands, guided by The Hand of Mormon. Seeking for a sign looking for someone to lead needing someone to follow, and the words pour forth to exaggerate the stiff-necked and exasperate the befuddled seeking belief before understanding. The clarity of the event in my mind’s eye is indelible. Mormon Clarity of mind seems baked into the paradigm but what the heck –– it’s Mormonism –– thank god there is a record of all these events else we’d be deprived of our unique and peculiar grasp on Bibical Prophecy.
Perhaps Mormon Bibical Scripture is forgettable after all –– “An unusually effective cure for insomnia”
great fun mymos
May 18, 2015 at 4:27 am
Funny podcast.
Also funny/ironic that i think this is the second time the host has followed “satan’s advice” asking that the prophet cut off an arm and restore it…”so that the people may know they have come with power.”
You need to be a mo of at least 42 years old to get that one.
June 22, 2022 at 4:40 pm
Nice bllog post