Click to Listen: Episode 38: Mymo Special 2.0
Awesome chat between David Michael and Mymo Prophet Matthew Timion. We cover everything from how Mormons justify wealth, whether or not Prophets actually believe any of this, the deeper meaning of the Nehor teachings, how either of us are arguably more moral than god, and a whole lot more.
And don’t forget to check out Prophet Matthew’s book: http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Faith-Six-Years-Mormonism/dp/1492300802
My Book of Mormon 
September 23, 2014 at 6:02 am
I have one minor criticism only, and that’s with the timing. This felt to me like it should have been a midweek bonus episode. I hate to have to wait two weeks to hear you get back into the book, and I feel like I didn’t get my fix this week. I shouldn’t complain. I guess I got a little spoiled during that period when you had some extra time to do two episodes per week for several weeks in a row.
But this episode was pretty good, and I hope you will be doing some more like this every now and then. I was a bit surprised that that stuff about pre-mortal existence came up, since that only really shows up in The Pearl of Great Price. It’s not in the Book of Mormon at all. (Well, some people read Alma 13 as dealing with pre-mortality, with priests being chosen by God before they’re born, or something. Yeah, that super boring chapter that made no sense, it turns out some self-righteous types love it and other such obscure chapters, because they believe they have some special insight, no doubt because they’re so awesome and worthy.)
But a heads up on theology isn’t quite the same as a plot spoiler, so I don’t see any problem with it.
September 23, 2014 at 8:28 pm
I really enjoyed this episode, though honestly I wasn’t sure I would. I find discussing finer points of the theology, as well as the impact it has on everyday people to be as relevant, even more so, than the book itself. I actually wish there were more of these type of episodes to break up the monotony a bit, but I realize it’s probably quite a bit of effort to set up interviews. Even so, keep up the good work Mr. Michael!
September 24, 2014 at 1:27 am
A lot of what people think about Mormon belief doesn’t appear in the Book of Mormon (which makes you wonder why they say it contains the fullness of the gospel). The magic underwear and endowments, not in there. Marriage for time and eternity, not in there. Abstaining from coffee, tea and smoking, not in there. The Plan of Salvation, where God lays out the plan for how things are going to be on Earth, not in there. 3 Degrees of glory, not in there.
When you examine it, you can actually do away with the Book of Mormon entirely or call it a book of fables without largely affecting Mormon belief in general but they won’t do that. To them, all this is 100% real, despite the lack of evidence
September 24, 2014 at 7:21 pm
When talking about definitions of religious terms, I was always taught that we have a lot of terms in everyday life that we can’t precisely define.
Take the words river and stream. If I were to try to explain to someone that a river is a flowing body of water, they might say, Oh, you mean a stream? Well, no, A stream is like a river, but smaller. Ok, then when does a stream become a river? Uhh…. when it gets big enough. How big is that? Nobody really has a precise size… it just is.
The religious terms you are talking about are similar to this. Sin, faith, repentance, etc are all concepts which can be understood and used in theology, but when you try and put an exact meaning on them, like “when does a wrongdoing or mistake become a sin?”, it’s like trying to ask when a stream becomes a river. There’s really no good way to define it, but we know it when we see it.
September 24, 2014 at 7:33 pm
Bishop Scott, I appreciate the comment, but I’m not sure that it really helps me to understand. I get the river/stream analogy, but the difference is that no one would claim that you have to know the difference between a river and a stream to ensure eternity in paradise as opposed to an eternity in torture. Avoiding sin, on the other hand, is claimed by many to be that important. And when one can’t accurately define sin, I’m just not sure what they are saying will keep me in or out of heaven. Does that make sense?
September 24, 2014 at 9:38 pm
Oh absolutely!
I didn’t mean to leave the impression that this line of reasoning makes sense. You are correct that something as important as eternity in heaven or hell had better damned well have a clearly defined set of rules that I know to follow.
January 28, 2015 at 1:36 am
I know I am jumping in here a few months late, but just discovered this podcast a few weeks ago and I am still trying to catch up. I did want to add my thoughts about heaven and hell in Mormonism because it seems to be a major hang-up. It is easy to ready the sermons of the BofM and conclude that God is some sort of monster, willing and even eager to smite his own children for petty or undefined offenses, then consign them to be tortured forever just for spite. Listening to this podcast I can’t fault anyone for coming to this conclusion, especially without the context of later doctrines.
In my opinion, the key to understanding the Mormon concept of salvation is in the doctrine of deification. In Christendom at large, salvation is simply a matter of returning to live with God among clouds and harps in some sort of eternal bliss. Mormonism, on the other hand, has a much grander concept of eternal life and salvation. We are not looking to revert to a state of innocence to live with God, but are instead seeking to become like God ourselves. That status requires not only that we be clean and pure, but also that we are mature, responsible, compassionate and generally prepared take on such a high station.
On my mission I always compared it to a businessman sending his child to work on the factory floor to gain the experience and understanding necessary to one day run the business herself. Sure, the keys to the kingdom could be handed over without a rigorous period of testing and trial, but in all likelihood disaster would ensue if someone was given more power and authority than they were prepared to wield. Therefore, God really can’t save anybody unless that person both genuinely wants to be saved and proves themselves capable of choosing good under the duress of a wicked world.
The Book of Mormon itself is very heavy on the heaven and hell imagery with lakes of fire and eternal torment, but I always understood that as a heavy-handed way of expressing the dissapointment of falling short of our own unimaginably great potential. The reality is that Mormonism is very nearly a universalist church with everyone achieving the greatest degree of salvation they are prepared to accept. I have always imagined that in the final tally, God will be far more generous than any of us realize, and those who are so eager to exclude the “sinners” of this world–be they LBGT, apostates, etc.–will wind up looking up at them in amazement after the final judgement.
Sorry for the long post, which is probably coming too late to do much good anyway. It is funny how the same text can elicit such a different response in people depending on the context and background of the reader, and I just wanted to introduce the doctrines as I understood them for consideration. I am looking forward to hearing more of your perspective on the Book of Mormon and the LDS church. Luckily I don’t have to wait a week to hear the next episode.
Back to binge listening.
Joe