Episode 26: Mosiah 16-18

July 28, 2014


Click to Listen: Episode 26: Mosiah 16-18

We finally have a guest on the show to help read along! Drew Kosonen from ProphetCast joins to hear what Abinadi has been up to, which basically is that he either started his own church or a set up a multi-level-marketing sceme… I’m still not really sure which.

“Drink” Count – 32

A little over five Beers



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7 Comments on “Episode 26: Mosiah 16-18”

  1. Duke of Earl Grey Says:

    Since everyone’s clamoring for more Arnold Friberg paintings (you are, you know you are), here’s “Alma Baptizes in the Waters of Mormon”:

    Fun facts:
    1) Nephite men were ripped, apparently.
    2) In modern Mormon culture, baptizing with your shirt off is not acceptable for some reason.


  2. jwartena Says:

    David, you are correct concerning the Mormon concept of resurrection: It happens in “waves.”

    As mentioned in the episode, Mormons do not believe in one single heaven, but rather varying degrees of heaven, according to the faithfulness of the individual. As an extension of this concept, there are corresponding resurrections, the first and second.

    This is actually a more developed concept of Christian resurrection in general, which says there are at least 2 resurrections, according to the Bible. Mormonism is unique because it further divides the two resurrections (one of the just and one of the unjust).

    The super-duper good people (who were faithful Mormons, of course) are resurrected when Jesus comes, and they live with Him on the paradasiacal Earth, ushering in His millenial reign.

    These very first are called “those brought forth in the morning of the first resurrection,” and will be in the Celestial Kingdom, the best Mormon heaven. This is where they become Gods, are together as families, chill with Jesus, etc.

    Then you have other people who are also part of the “first” resurrection, but not “the morning” of it. They come in the “afternoon of the first resurrection.” These are good people as well, but they are consigned to the Terrestrial Kingdom, Mormon middle heaven.

    What they do for eternity is not clear, but they definitely don’t have kids, aren’t together as families, and don’t get to buddy up with God. But it’s still good! Because they weren’t faithful, they wouldn’t be happy up in the Celestial anyway, so we don’t need to feel bad for them; they’ll be happy. They even get to see Jesus and their families from up higher when those guys come down to visit.

    Then there are individuals who “come forth in the second resurrection,” which takes place at the end of the thousand years of Christ’s millenial reign. These are the carnal, wicked people (and those of us who left Mormonism :D). They get resurrected right after the thousand years and end up in the Telestial Kingdom, the lowest Mormon heaven.

    Once again, what happens in the Telestial isn’t clear, except that not even Jesus goes down there, just the Holy Ghost. Supposedly, it’s a lot like Earth, just without the sickness, temptations, and whatnot. But definitely no hanky panky or families!

    Finally, in the end of the second resurrection, the sons of perdition are resurrected. These are the people that used to be super faithful members, like apostles and stuff, but rejected the Church and did the worst possible things, like murder. (Cain and Judas are good examples here.)

    The sons of perdition, along with Satan and his followers, and the only ones who really go to Hell in the traditional sense. They are cast into “outer darkness,” which is completely seperate from all the heavens, and cut off from God for all eternity.

    The Book of Mormon doesn’t make this theology clear. At times it seems like it is clearly echoing traditional Christian concepts of Heaven and Hell. This is likely because Joseph Smith hadn’t fully developed his afterlife theology, so official Mormon doctrine and the Book of Mormon don’t completely agree.


  3. jwartena Says:

    Well, I should have finished listening before I posted.

    Concerning the Alma baptizing himself confusion.

    Alma was a priest, meaning he had previously been baptized and ordained to the priesthood, given authority to do ordinances and whatnot.

    However, since he had been very wicked under King Noah’s rule, drinking, sexing, etc., he needed to repent. Obviously he repented after hearing Abinadi; he even started teaching.

    Anyway, when he baptizes Helam (Hee-lum), he goes under with him to symbolically show his new dedication to the Lord. This is especially important because we assume all the people watching would have been familiar with his shady history.

    Hehe, multi-level marketing. You probably don’t know how popular MLM schemes are in Utah. It’s so bad that some people use MLM as an acronym for “Mormons losing money.”

    And yes, there is a huge push for communism in the Book of Mormon. This continues in the D&C. Joseph Smith tried to establish the Mormon version of communism, called the United Order (although modern members stoutly refuse that it was communism, because that’s evil). Nowdays, the Church simply says this communal order will eventually happen in the Millenium.

    Now I’m done!


    • Allen Manning Says:

      Ahahaha, “Mormons Loosing Money”…BRILLIANT!

      My family totally got involved in at least two MLMs, both of which turned out to be complete scams and the companies went bottoms up in a few months. Being involved with my family in these schemes actually helped change my way of thinking, and paved they way for my way out of Mormonism.

      The way this happened was my uncle first approached us about this awesome opportunity he found that was gonna go big, and we are blessed to have the chance to get in on the ground floor. I was a teenager at the time, and I really looked up to this guy. He was the coolest uncle on my mothers side, funny, and entrepreneur. He started a successful business, that was 100% family run. All his siblings worked for him, his parents worked for him, and all the cousins did as well at one point in their life. I personally spent 6 years under his employment. I trusted him at his word, and the same with all the rest of our relatives. The only one who really questioned was my dad.

      He’s all “I don’t think this is a good idea, I’m not joining”. I stood up to him and said “I may be making a mistake, and I’m willing to do so because I trust my uncle. He does his homework.” Well obviously it went under, and someone else decide to start another company with the exact same concept, it was simply that the previous owner was corrupt and selfish, and that’s why it failed. We all jumped on the band wagon, and it died a faster death than the previous one. These were expensive ones, each was like $2000 to get in on the ground floor, and one of my cousins even gave up her “Europe Fund” to participate.

      Fool me twice, shame on me. The third one they approached me with, I actually researched and did my own homework before making a decision, and in less than an hour was able to find it to be completely bunkus as well. It was then it hit me my uncle, and really my family in general, were not the infallible sound of mind people I thought they were. It was a huge shock and downer to me, and started a new pattern of double-guessing their judgement.

      After a few years, the church was fair game for me to question as well. After doing my own research I discovered it was one of the biggest and most successful bunkus MLMs out their. So I cut my losses, and bailed out of the nut-wagon to freedom.



  4. Roger Says:

    Just letting you know that I liked the guest host. It’s nice to hear a different voice, especially if you get some decent banter going.


  5. J. Reuben Clerk Says:

    Don’t worry, David. The 24 plates and the lost civilization are loose ends that will be tied up before you’re through. (I hope that doesn’t count as a spoiler.)


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