Episode 4: Nephi 12-15

April 20, 2014


Click to Listen: Episode 4: Nephi 12-15

This is just a loooooooong Nephi dream.  He dreams about his “seed” doing battle (and losing) in America, and we learn just how racist mormon god is.  The good news is, the dream finally ends and we’re right smack back in the middle of the old family drama.

Drinking Game count (this will make sense after Episode 9, basically, drink after ever “Yea” and “It came to pass”)

“Drink” Count – 58

Almost 10 Beers!!


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5 Comments on “Episode 4: Nephi 12-15”

  1. Tina Says:

    Holy cow! I never realized how ridiculously confusing this section is for a first-time reader. The entire dream is a huge spoiler for what happens between the last chapters of 3rd Nephi and the end of the BOM… 12 new apostles (disciples) chosen on the American continent, three generations of righteousness followed by epic battles between good & evil. I never realized how many spoilers were in this book before!


  2. Jesus Shuttlesworth Says:

    You wondered why Nephi says “mist of darkness” instead of just darkness. It could have been that he was describing ash from a volcanic explosion, a type of event he likely had little knowledge of, that is often accompanied by lightning and quaking of the ground. There are hundreds of volcanoes, many of the active during the relevant period, in the area of America where most educated believers think almost all of the Book of Mormon took place, namely the Mayan portion of Mesoamerica. (1 Ne. 12:4 And it came to pass that I saw a mist of darkness on the face of the land of promise; and I saw lightnings, and I heard thunderings, and earthquakes, and all manner of tumultuous noises; and I saw the earth and the rocks, that they rent;)

    Some people, including me, believe that the references to white and black and skins of darkness/blackness are likely metaphorical and have similar non-literal usage in the Bible. Sorry I don’t have a good reference for an article describing this, but this was the first I found that had some decent Bible references. I’ve included the relevant portion.


    The metaphorical use of color terms echoes that of the Bible. Lamentations 4:7-8 (Revised English Version), ascribes metaphorical color to capture the before/after conditions of the Babylonian captivity:

    Her crowned princes were once purer than snow, whiter than milk; they were ruddier than branching coral; their limbs were lapis lazuli.

    But their faces turned blacker than soot, and no one knew them in the streets; the skin was shriveled tight over their bones, dry as touchwood.

    Obviously no pigmentation change occurred as the “white” faces of the princes became “blacker than soot.” Here are two other examples:

    Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. (Joel 2:6)

    She is empty, and void, and waste: and the heart melteth, and the knees smite together, and much pain is in all loins, and the faces of them all gather blackness. (Nahum 2:10)

    The metaphor can also use “skin”: “When I looked for good, then evil came unto me: and when I waited for light, there came darkness. My bowels boiled, and rested not: the days of affliction prevented me. I went mourning without the sun: I stood up, and I cried in the congregation. I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls. My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat” (Job 30:26-30).

    Even the reversal, becoming white, is a metaphor: “And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed” (Dan. 11:35).


    • Will Roberts Says:

      ^^^ Welcome to the batshit insane world of Mormon apologetics, David.

      Also, I laughed my ass off listening to this episode. SO hilarious.


  3. MeL Says:

    It may be note worthy that the newest edition of the Book of Mormon is changing the word “white” to “pure” they are pure and delightsome. And will no longer use the phrase “received a skin of blackness” I guess the racist bit finally needed to be changed to conform.


  4. SeeItAnotherWay Says:

    Some say that the skin color darkening symbolized unrighteousness because it indicated that one had married outside the covenant people (who were those from the Jerusalem exodus party). If the people who were in America at the time had dark skin this could be a valid justification for the seemingly racist words about skin color.

    Also worth noting is the long chapter from Jacob which goes on and on about grafting in branches. Maybe Jacob was trying to tell the people that the possibly dark skinned natives could be adopted into their church.


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