Ep 224: Official Declaration 2

September 22, 2018

Episodes

Ep 224: Official Declaration 2

Church leadership was powerless – POWERLESS – to change their extremely racist policy. After a bunch of petitioning, god changed his mind about black people.

Drink count – 6

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7 Comments on “Ep 224: Official Declaration 2”

  1. help3434 Says:

    Did you forget about the three levels within the celestial kingdom?
    Not having the priesthood would have only barred Pharaoh from the highest level within the Celestial Kingdom, not from the Kingdom itself.

    I have never heard of the Priesthood being restricted from indigenous Americans. Do you have any sources for that?

    Reply

    • My Book of Mormon Says:

      I was under the impression that the three levels of heaven had to do with how “good” a priesthood holder you were on earth. If you’re a male and you don’t hold the priesthood (or your husband doesn’t if you’re a female) then you can’t get in at all.

      I don’t personally have a cited research paper, or names and dates where a Native American was excluded. But… the native Americans in the Utah valley were slaughtered in the years after the saints entered the area. Killing you seems a pretty definitive exclusion from the priesthood.

      Reply

      • help3434 Says:

        D&C Section 131
        1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

        2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

        3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

        4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

        So they can enter in but it is not really a good deal since those in the lower degrees of the Celestial kingdom will be “ministering angels” according to S&C 132. I think the idea that Brigham Young and the members had at the time is that within the Celestial Kingdom black people would be their servants.

        Reply

      • help3434 Says:

        “But… the native Americans in the Utah valley were slaughtered in the years after the saints entered the area. ”
        Doesn’t mean that those that were converted were restricted from the Priesthood. The LDS Church had Indian missions throughout its history well before 1978. In 1975 a full blooded Navajo became a General Authority.

        Reply

    • Duke of Earl Grey Says:

      I’d agree with help3434 that priesthood is not a requirement for lowest level of the Celestial Kingdom. The requirements are pretty much laid out in D&C 76, being baptism and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost (and continuing in faith and all that). But since priesthood as a concept wasn’t even fully developed at the time of D&C 76, and no one, to my knowledge, ever specified what it takes to get only as far as the middle degree of the Celestial Kingdom, it’s really all just speculation.

      Still, whether we’re talking about exclusion from heaven, or merely exclusion from the highest VIP level of heaven, it’s still exclusion.

      Reply

  2. Duke of Earl Grey Says:

    There’s a rather bold assertion made in OD 2, one which the church has little justification to make: “Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God’s eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood… the long-promised day has come…”

    Promises? Long-promised? I’m not sure what they mean. I’m aware of perhaps one statement made by Brigham Young that could be considered a “promise” that black people would one day receive the priesthood. Like all great theological proclamations, it was made in just the way we would expect, as part of Young’s address to the Utah legislature in his role as territorial governor, February 5, 1852 (spelling errors in the original transcription, I can only suppose):

    “Now then in the kingdom of God on the earth, a man who has has the Affrican blood in him cannot hold one jot nor tittle of preisthood; Why? because they are the true eternal principals the Lord Almighty has ordained, and who can help it, men cannot. the angels cannot, and all the powers of earth and hell cannot take it off, but thus saith the Eternal I am, what I am, I take it off at my pleasure, and not one partical of power can that posterity of Cain have, until the time comes the says he will have it taken away. That time will come when they will have the privilege of all we have the privelege of and more.”

    See! say the apologists, Brigham wasn’t racist. He said one day they will have all our privileges, and MORE! But we would be remiss to ignore something Brigham said a bit earlier in his address:

    “Now I tell you what I know; when the mark was put upon Cain, Abels children was in all probability young; the Lord told Cain that he should not receive the blessings of the preisthood nor his seed, until the last of the posterity of Able had received the preisthood, until the redemtion of the earth. If there never was a prophet, or apostle of Jesus Christ spoke it before, I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain. I know they are, I know that they cannot bear rule in the preisthood, for the curse on them was to remain upon the, until the resedue of the posterity of Michal [Adam] and his wife receive the blessings, the seed of Cain would have received had they not been cursed; and hold the keys of the preisthood, until the times of the restitution shall come, and the curse be wiped off from the earth, and from michals seed. Then Cain’s seed will be had in rememberance, and the time come when that curse should be wiped off.”

    “Until the redemption of the earth”… “until the times of the restitution”… “until the last of the posterity of Abel had received the priesthood”… Brigham is not prophesying and promising that all worthy male members of the church would be given the priesthood in 1978. He’s saying that maybe, once every other person has received the blessings of the priesthood, after Jesus has come back, and he’s reigning on Earth during the Millennium, or even later than that, maybe, at the very end of the world itself, then black people will get the priesthood. It’s not quite as extreme a statement as “when Hell freezes over”, but it sounds close to me.

    That’s the only “prophecy” or “promise” from an LDS church president that that one day all men would be eligible for the priesthood, that I’m aware of, and I’d like to see the church point to any more. I won’t count any times they said “Maybe it will”, or “It would take a revelation to do it”, because that’s all hypothetical, not prophetical.

    If I may make my own prophecy, one day, maybe even before I die, the church will extend the priesthood to women, and it will make similar claims that it was in the plan of God all along, that it was long-promised and prophesied by the presidents of the church. They won’t give a single good example then, either, and they’ll ignore every statement they’ve ever made to the contrary.

    Reply

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