Episode 148: D&C 49 – Section 67
In today’s episode of victim-blaming, it’s still always your fault. Ezra Booth’s anti-Mormon writings have begun appearing in local newspapers! Trust in Joseph anyway, because REASONS. Marie asserts her complete lack of humility, Bryce experiences the spirit of god when listening to heavy metal.
Read the LDS churches’ explanation about D&C revisions/adjustments at
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/adjustments?lang=eng
Foundation Beyond Belief https://foundationbeyondbelief.org/
Drink count – 6 (or barely one beer)
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Podcastriarchal blessing: Todd and Madeline
Podcastriarchal music is Our Happy Life by Maps and Transit, edited for length
My Book of Mormon 
February 25, 2017 at 4:41 pm
The way I interpreted 67:7-9 was that it’s similar to the argument Muhammad constantly makes in the Quran.
“Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.”
– Surah 11 verse 13
“Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’”
– Surah 17 verse 88
I think what he’s saying there is that if they want to question the Book of Commandments, they have no authority until they can produce a revelation of their own superior to it. IMO, that’s not a hard ask for either the BoC or the Quran, but I guess it worked for Joe and Muhammad.
February 25, 2017 at 6:57 pm
Joel– you beat me to it! 🙂
Section 67:7-9 refers to what is sometimes called “The McLellin Challenge.” At this time when Joseph and Sidney are planning to publish the Doctrine & Covenants, some of the brethren, including David Whitmer and William E. McLellin, questioned not only the changes that were being made to the Book of Commandments, but also whether Joseph’s revelations should be considered as scripture on the same level as the Book of Mormon. I’m sure Ezra Booth’s letters in the newspaper, as well as people’s personal experience dealing with Joseph on a daily basis, lead to their questioning of him.
To which Joseph responded, in essence, with “Oh, yeah? Think you can do better? Then go ahead and try. But if you can’t write a revelation that’s as good, then STFU.”
Now, the story as I was taught it growing up in the Church was that McLellin, thinking himself the smartest of the group, took on the challenge. He labored all night to write something as good, but ultimately couldn’t and the next day went back to Joseph with tears in his eyes and admitted that he had failed and asked Joseph and the Lord for forgiveness.
The earliest account of the incident is in the Manuscript History of the Church, Book A-1, 161-63 and reads as follows:
“At his (McLellin’s) request Joseph Smith inquired of the Lord concerning him, and received a revelation (see Doc. & Cov., Sec. 66.) Wm E. McLellin, as the wisest man in his own estimation, having more learning than sense, endeavored to write a commandment like unto one of the least of the Lord’s, but failed: it was an awful responsibility to write in the name of the Lord. The elders and all present that witnessed this vain attempt of a man to imitate the language of Jesus Christ, renewed their faith in the fullness of the gospel, and in the truth of the commandments and revelations which the Lord had given to the church through my instrumentality; and the Elders signified a willingness to bear testimony of their truth to all the world.”
But over time the story was embellished to make McLellin look progressively worse until, in one retelling, he is described as “an Apostate from the beginning.” There’s a reason for this retroactive character assassination from the Salt Lake crowd, but to explain further at this point would require too many spoilers!
[Anyone wanting a full detailed account should read “Having More Learning Than Sense: William E, McLellin and the Book Of Commandments Revisited” by Mark R. Grandstaff in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought – Volume 26 Number 4, pages 23-48.]
As an academic myself, this story always weighed heavily on me growing up, lest I become too smart, and therefore too proud, and ultimately “fall away” like poor old William McLellin (which is exactly what happened– but that’s another story…) 🙂
Since I was so familiar with this story, imagine my surprise when reading the Quran when I came across the verses that Joel referenced! [There are many similarities between the Quran and the D&C in the way they were received, compiled, and used, but that would require another epistle… 😉 ]
At the time with which these Surahs are concerned, Muhammad’s authority and authenticity were being challenged (sound familiar?). How could this undeucated person from a poor family receive revelations from Allah? To which the response was, in essence “You think you can do better? Even if Jinn (Genies) help you, you still can’t do it, so STFU.”
The specific subject of these verses was a man by the name of Nadhir ibn al-Hareth who, being dubious of Muhammad’s claims of revelations from God, purchased a number of stories and legends from Persia and would read them to the crowds after Muhammad had been speaking and ask if the stories weren’t just as good if not better. Muhammad didn’t take kindly to these challenges and had al-Hareth beheaded. Done and done!
And so what I’m leading to with all this is that Muslim scholars for at least the past hundred years have referred to al-Hareth as “the McLellin of Islam”! 😀 Seriously. He’s referred to with that tag line in more than one respected history [for example, see D. S. Margoliouth, Mohammed and the Rise of Islam, 3d ed., p. 134]. Apparently Muslim scholars know a whole lot more about Mormon history than vice versa.
So the lesson for today is that the President’s – uh, I mean Prophet’s – power will not be questioned!
March 1, 2017 at 7:36 pm
Marie and Bryce should really start posting these episodes under a new podcast title. New listeners that find this podcast and listen to the like-able, but not entertaining Marie and the rambling doofus Bryce will miss the podcast gold that was the original show with David Michael. Marie said it best in her intro that this is a different show. Whereas David solicited donations to help others Marie brags that she uses the cash just to fund her trips to various conferences. I knew the second that David brought on Bryce that that would mark the beginning of the end to one of the best podcasts of all time. This show has only a small percentage of the entertainment and informative value it once had. What a shame. David, can I pay you to come back and re-do D&C all by yourself? I’ll pay anything!!!!!
March 5, 2017 at 9:16 pm
I was a fan of David Michael too, but when he left I was very glad that Marie was willing to step in and continue the podcast. I continue to enjoy the show, and I find it informative as well as entertaining. I appreciate the historical narrative Bryce contributes each episode; I have found the the links and background information that Marie adds to be a bonus as well. I am quite happy to continue to support the My Book of Mormon podcast over at Patreon.